INTERVIEW:How And Why We Killed Aguyi Ironsi?Jeremiah Useni.

NOTE:The following interview was formerly conducted/carried out by Hausa news paper(Rariya)but was literally translated to English by Nigerian News Paper,Premium Time News.

Bellow is the interview With Lt. General Jeremiah Useni...

You joined the Army as fourteen year old, and you were posted to England for a Course at sixteen, how did you feel at the time?

Honestly, it was like a dream to me because
I broke my left leg during a game of
football, just one year after I joined the
Army. As a young footballer, I had very
strong shooting ability with my left leg.

Anyone who was unfortunate to be hit with
my shots really suffered no matter their
size. I spent about four months at the
hospital In Kaduna. Most of the hospital
staffs at the time were Europeans, and they
were very efficient. They joked a lot with
their patients and they related with you as
if you had known them for ages. One day,
they decided to come and test all of us and
see those who had made progress, so that
they would be discharged. When they came
to me, they asked; ‘can you stand up?’ And
I said, ‘yes’. Then I was asked to stand up
and walk. The whiteman said, ‘this one is ok
now, he can be discharged’.
Later, they said there would be exams to
select those who would go to England, and
I had spent four years without studies or
anything. However, there was a senior
officer who was teaching me, and I went to
write the exams, and I passed. I was not
even sure we were really going to Europe
until one day when they came to the dining
room and called out our names, five of us;
they asked us to go to a particular building,
that our attention was needed there. On
getting there, we saw that they had
prepared omelet and other kinds of
delicacies of the Europeans. At the time, we
were used to eating Garri only, we either
soak or prepare Eba with one green soup
like that. We realised that we might really
be going to Europe. That was how I went as
a very young boy, and I thank God for that
because before we left Nigeria, they were
paying us one naira, in fact, we were first
paid seventy kobo, until after one year,
when they increased it to one naira.

When I went to England, under the Boys
Company battalion, they started paying us
four pounds after only two months. I wrote
to my father to tell him that we were now
receiving four pounds as pay, and I asked
him to pay any tax he was asked to pay
because I was also enjoying. I told him that
just to show him how happy I was.

Many people were afraid of joining the Army at the time you joined. Were your parents alive at the time?

They were alive. It was my father’s friends
that did not want me to join. My father was
a Royal Guard, and you know a royal guard
does not fear anything. He was the most
influential official next to the emir, who
knows any judge at time? We didn’t even
see a policeman until we went to Jos. My
father’s friends were advising him not to
risk his only son, because I was an only
child, but he said since that was what I
wanted, I should go ahead, he told them
that only God would decide if I live or die.

You had some time with the Sardauna and his Ministers, such as Michael Audu Buba?

We just hear them speak on the radio, or
read about them in Newspapers, but I saw
Sardauna a lot when I was in Boys
Company. He used to visit us, because
there was a sugar cane farm, where we
used to train, and after such trainings, most
of us do get some sugar cane in the farm.
Sardauna used to come there and we saw
him a lot. I first saw him in 1957.

After your return from England,
Sardauna , Tafawa Balewa and others were killed in 1966. Where were you at the time?

I was with 4th Battalion Ibadan. The coup
came to us as a surprise, like a thief in the
night. We just heard in the morning that
Sardauna and the rest were killed. In fact,
we did not get the news on time. Where
was our C.O Lt. Col. Largema? And Brig.
Maimalari and Col Kur Mohammed? We
learnt they were all killed. And we asked,
what type of coup was that? At the time, we
were not concerned with where you came
from or what your religion was. As long as
you were from the north, we cherish each
other so much.

So we organised ourselves and agreed that
what happened was very dangerous. We
also learnt later that a broad government
was being formed. A northerner will be
transferred to the South, while a
Southerner will be transferred to the north.
General Hassan katsina was the governor of
the north at the time. People like Kashim
Ibrahim were also gone. So those of us,
Army officers from the north were very
angry really.

What was your rank at the time?

I was a Second Lieutenant then, my mates
were Ibrahim Babangida, Garba Duba,
Mamman Magoro, and the rest. I was
together with Yelwa in 4th Battalion, while
Duba was in Kaduna. There was another
officer from Niger state, I have forgotten
his name, and he was even a Senator
recently. We realised that Igbos were
behind all the killings, and were angered
the more because they were not even
arrested. Although, they were later arrested
and taken to jail, but information came to
us that they were just enjoying themselves
there. Even their ranks were returned to
them and they were wearing their uniforms
inside the jail.

We started meeting to find a way out. Our
Brigade Commander, Maimalari was killed,
Col. Pam, Tafawa Balewa and the rest were
all killed. We continued to meet in secret
and strategising on how to take revenge.

But while that was going on, words started
going round about what the Igbo officers
were saying: that they had killed the snake,
but had failed to cut off the head.

Which meant those of us left might make them
suffer later, that there was therefore the
need to finish us off. Instead of them to
show remorse and apologise, they were
planning another sinister attacks. We were
together with Col. Remawa at the time, he
was serving in Abeokuta, and we heard of a
grand plot to kill our emirs. A meeting of
all emirs was called in Ibadan, all our
emirs gathered in Ibadan, that the head of
state, Ironsi, would address them. So we
said, are we going to let him come, address
them and leave? Or should we just kill him
or what? Our fear was that he was in the
company of our emirs, and you know
bullets do not select whom to hit. What do
we do? We don’t want even a single emir to
die.
We also considered arresting him at his
lodge before he goes to meet with them.

Col. Adekunle Fajuyi was the governor of
South West at the time, and the head of
state, Ironsi, was staying in his house in
Ibadan. So we don’t want a situation where
they would say he conspired with us. So we
decided the best thing to do was to open
fire there even if Governor Fajuyi was also
caught, so that they would just be buried
together, and that was what happened.
Before that time, a party was organised for
officers, they brought all sort of drinks for
us there. In fact, since joining the Army, I
had never seen so many assorted drinks
like the one they brought for us that day.

The plan was to get us all drunk, so that
they would just come and open fire on us
and kill us all. That was what they planned
for us at the 4th Battalion Ibadan because
we were the most feared, because we were
the ones who lost a brigade Commander,
Lagerma. When Murtala returned from
Lagos empty handed, everyone was just
crying because Lagerma was a very nice
man. After the Coup, Gowon was made the
Head of state.

When Ironsi was arrested, T.Y. Danjuma
was said to be in Ibadan, and there were
reports that you, Duba and Remawa
were the ones who arrested him?
It was Garba Dada, the guy from Niger
state, the one I was telling you was a
Senator recently. He was the Adjutant
General at the time, and he was our co-
ordinator. We did not stay in one place to
meet. We used to drive up to beyond Ijebu-
Ode meeting inside the car and then turn
back.

Continue...

When Ironsi was arrested, T.Y. Danjuma was said to be in Ibadan, and there were
reports that you, Duba and Remawa were the ones who arrested him?

It was Garba Dada, the guy from Niger
state, the one I was telling you was a
Senator recently. He was the Adjutant
General at the time, and he was our co-
ordinator. We did not stay in one place to
meet. We used to drive up to beyond Ijebu-Ode meeting inside the car and then turn
back.

Was Domkat Bali also in Ibadan at the time?

No. He was at Abeokuta. In fact they were
the ones who started shooting before us.
We said, if we just kept quiet, they would
have arrested our Boys there.

Why was Gowon selected after the coup?

He was the most senior officer at the time.
But there was another reason too. There
were people like T.Y. Danjuma and Murtala.
But Murtala was a bit less than Gowon in
rank, and was too close to us.
After Ironsi was killed, the country was
plunged into a civil war. You were
heading the logistics and in charge of
most war equipment.

What were the challenges you faced during the war?

At times, it is good to be in the forefront in
battle, instead of nominating someone.

Facing the enemy is a difficult task that
requires effective strategy. You need to put
in place how to effectively block the supply
of enough ammunitions and back up to
them. If you do that, it will not be difficult
to finish them off. That is the role I played,
I ensured that our troops get enough
ammunitions and logistic support all the
time.

We started with General Danjuma, he was
the C.O. and then Mamman Shuwa, who
was later transferred to Kaduna as the
GOC. So also was Martins Adamu. Adamu
was leading Ogoja troop, Danjuma was in
Nsukka, and I was in Abakaliki.

What do you think were the reasons Gowon was removed?

People began to feel he was distancing
himself from them. He was unreachable.

The top officers of the time felt he was
building a wall between them, and so they
felt there was need for change. But he was
not killed, they waited until he was out of
the country to Kampala, Uganda before
they toppled him, and asked him not to
return. Murtala was then made his
successor.

How was your relationship with Murtala?

He was a gentleman. I could remember
when it happened, we just returned to Jos
with my troop. We moved all our military
hardware on our vehicles and train and we
even had to hire more vehicles. When we
arrived Jos, we went round the town with
our entourage up to the Government House
just to show the people we have come, only
to learn the following morning that Gowon
had been toppled. I was a Major at the
time.

Continue...

When Murtala was killed, it was
observed that most of the perpetrators were from Plateau, such as Dimka and Bisalla;
how did you feel?

Honestly, I was really surprised. We were
honest and cordial with each other, not
knowing that some people had sinister
motive. When we did our own, it was
revenge against the Igbos, but people we
don’t understand did this one. But we
thank God that they were identified after
investigations. It was Dimka and his people
that were planning to return Gowon to
power. But Bisalla, was saying ‘I am here,
why should you go looking for someone
outside’? This country is lucky to have
people like General T.Y. Danjuma.

When Obasanjo became the Head of State, he
was supposed to be the second in
command, but Danjuma said no, there was
no need for Murtala to be killed, and an
Obasanjo was made the head of State, with
a T.Y. Danjuma second in command. Then
Shehu Yar’adua was brought in when he
was a Lieutenant Colonel but he was
doubly promoted to a Brigadier General
and made the second in command to
Obasanjo. Yar’adua was a gentleman, and
that decision was taken to promote peace
in the land.

How did you meet Abacha,because you were the closest person to him?

All I can say is that it was God who crossed
our path together. Firstly, I am a Tarok
man, and he was not. He was a Muslim,
and I am not. I was also much closed to
Garba Duba. What happened was that even
while we were young officers after the civil
war, when a small town near Enugu was
captured, then a message came that I was
needed in Lagos. They told me I would be
going to Europe. At the time, there was no
daily flight to Lagos. So I took a Land Rover,
and by 9am the following day, I was at the
office. However, I was told I still had three
weeks before I departed. So I went back to
Enugu. We were all Lieutenants then and
they said we should be changed because
people in Kaduna were afraid.

They said the 4th battalion should move to Kaduna,
while the 3rd Battalion in Kaduna should
move to Ibadan.

It so happened Abacha was the officer
responsible for the movements of the
Battalion from Kaduna to Ibadan, and I was
in charge of those moving from Ibadan to
Kaduna. They were the first to arrive, so I
went to receive them at the train station
and show them were to eat and sleep. But
Abacha waited at the train station so that
any train that brought soldiers from
Kaduna, he would make sure soldiers from
Ibadan followed the train back to Kaduna.

We continued to do that until all the
soldiers were successfully ferried. We then
joined the remaining vehicles back to
Kaduna, and I left him at Ibadan. That was
how we became friends. And we then went
on to meet at 2nd Division Ibadan.

That was also where we met with Duba. He
was at Asaba with his Armoured Division,
and I was at the Headquarters at Benin,Abacha was at Tom Ikimi’s town.

We went out together anytime we met, and we even
used to sleep in the same house. Our
friendship became so strong that every
weekend we visited each other’s houses
and spend the weekend together.

We were going to the Houses on turn-by-turn basis,
up until the time Duba left the Army
because of an ailment that was disturbing
him. He went to a hospital in Saudi Arabia
three times before he said he was tired and
would simply retire. The three of us were
very much close. Nothing came in between
us, and people were even calling us
‘triplets’. That is God you know. That is why
I always tell people that fighting is not
good. If there were tribal clashes, the three
of us would not have been friends.

During the time Abacha was Head of State, people were saying you were in fact the President, because Abacha was not even seen in public much, and he was not close to his deputy. Others were saying the coup allegations against Obasanjo and Yaradu’a was just fabricated to break them down. What is the truth of the matter?

I have been asked this question several
times, and my answer always was that the
coup attempt was real. Even if I don’t like
you, would I just pick you up and lock you
up? There was a coup attempt, and I said
this even while Obasanjo was president.

When General Diya was being tried, you
saw how he was kneeling down to beg
Major Al-Mustapha who was not in
anywhere close to him in rank.

Definitely there was a coup attempt, but because
Abacha was a good man, he did not kill
them. When Obasanjo was a military Head
of state, there was a coup attempt, and he
enacted a law that killed the perpetrators.

But he was not killed, he was only jailed for
life, and they said when another
government comes, they can decide to
release him. He was in jail when Abacha
died, politics returned and so there was
selfishness and all sort of conspiracies. He
knows he was the one who signed the law
that said even if you did not participate in a
coup, and that you only heard of it but
decided to keep quiet, you are culpable,
and you face the same penalty as those
who planned to execute the coup. He made that law.

When Abdulsalam assumed leadership,
there was a debate whether he should be
released or not, but eventually they
decided to release him.

Continue...

People also said General Yar’adua had put pressure on your government,insisting at the constitutional conference that power must be transferred to a civilian authority, and he must have known about the coup because he had known about all the others in the past?

A. Well I cannot say anything about what I
have no adequate knowledge about.
Yar’adua and I were very close. He was my
good friend.

When you were FCT Minister, you set up a committee of traditional rulers in which you were the chairman?

The name of the committee was Traditional
Rulers Forum and Leaders of Thought.

Why was it formed, and what was the achievement of that committee?

We met a lot of problems on the ground
when we came to power, and I realised that
they were relegated to the background, they
were not revered and their advice were not
heeded, but whenever there was any crises
people rushed to them for solutions. So I
set up that committee so that traditional
rulers would know what was going on, and
also know that they were highly valued by
the government. There were actually two
committees, one of traditional rulers and
the other of leaders of thought.

We did not claim to know everything, so our success
came in the fact that the traditional rulers
were telling us what was going on among
the people, and what we needed to do for
the people.

It is ideal to be discussing matters of
national security with them, but it is never
done until something happens before you
see officials rushing to them in confusion.

One day, Abacha informed governors to
include them in their security meetings.

When a crisis occurred in Kano, Abacha
called the emir and asked him what was
happening? The emir replied that they had
discussed and there was no tension
anymore, and the emir told him ‘had we
not been involved you would have heard of
violence all over’.

We also looked at the allocations to
traditional rulers and realised that if you
were not in good terms with the governor,
he would deprived you of funding. He will
not renovate your palace, unless if you are
subservient to his wishes. Emir of Zaria was
getting only 3% and the Sultan was not
getting up to 5%. Some Traditional rulers
from the South were so surprised when
they heard that. You know there, most of
them are even businessmen. So we set up
an investigative committee to help the
emirs, under the leadership of the emir of
Gwandu, Jakolo. Emirs of the past were the
ones who give orders for something to be
brought to them, and it was brought, but
emirs these days have burden and many
take them to court for daring to touch
anything belonging to them. So we felt pity
on them and took the report to Abacha
saying 10% is too much, but they should at
least get 5% of allocations under their
domain.

Instead of holding these meetings in Abuja
alone, we were holding them in various
states. We started with Oyo, then Enugu.

We were to hold the 3rd one in Kaduna
then Abacha died. The emirs and chiefs
were enjoying it because they were getting
to know each other well and their domains
too. I could remember one day, Abacha
was seeing off the emir of Katsina after a
visit, and when he saw me, he told
Abacha,’ this is our Chairman, he told me
we are going to Enugu and I have never
been to Enugu before’. He said if it were
before, if he told his people that he would
be visiting Igbo land, they would ask him if
he was crazy, he also said, ‘but now that
everything is fine, I will go’.

Will you like to see such a committee continue to exist?

Of course yes. They need to continue with
it. One day, I met the Oba of Lagos, he told
me he had travelled very far and had seen
a very mighty forest without a single tree.

Just like you said, you, General Abacha
and Duba were like triplets. There were
reports that you were together the night
he died. How did you receive the news of
his death the following morning?

I was very sad, despite the fact that I was
not told in time. It was much later that I
was told I was needed urgently at the villa.

In fact, at first, I was even denied entry.

One of my boys became angry and corked
his gun and said ‘was he not here last
night’? Before they allowed us to get in. I
got there almost 11am. I met IGP Coomasie
and other top government dignitaries
there, those that were informed before me,
in spite of the fact that his family knew I
was his best friend. At first, I thought the
family was informed that I had a hand in
his death. They started asking me questions
about what I knew about the death. We
were together since we were junior officers,
is it now that I would kill him? After their
investigations, they realised that I had no
hand in his dead.

After Abacha’s death, many thought you would be the next Head of State, and there were some arguments. Why did you not succeed him?

There was politics in the whole thing. There
were several meetings, but no unified
decision was reached despite the fact that I
was the most senior officer of the lot. In
the end, they said Abdulsalami had been
selected, because he was the most senior
in terms of office. I left without taking any
appointment that is why up till today, no
one is accusing me of anything. That was what happened.

How did you feel when that happened? Did you feel cheated or not?

As a Christian, I believe in destiny.

I n the past, northerners are ahead of the South in terms of governance and administration, but today, the north has been relegated to the background, no
one is talking about a unified north anymore, just acommunity divided along ethnic and religious loyalties. The Southerners also have differences of religion and ethnicity, but it is not a
source of conflict there. How did the north get here?

Even you journalists know the kind of
cordial relationships that existed in the
past. Truth is both sides are at fault. We
northerners have our own fault, and those
opposing the north also have their own
fault. Did the Southerners plunge us into
the crises we are witnessing today? Many
innocent people have been killed today, to
the extent that there was an attempt to kill
the emir of Kano, just due to lack of
security. Not to talk of the Plateau.

One cannot say these crises are as a result of
religious differences because it appears to
surpass that.

But I believe we found ourselves in this
mess because we have turned our backs on
God, and we are mostly selfish in our
affairs. We have hardened our hearts and
are cheating each other, which will not take
us anywhere. Everything now is based on
religious on ethnic affiliations.

Why won’t we continue to suffer? If we had not united
ourselves as northerners in the past when
some Southerners killed our leaders we
would not have overcome. But today, this
one will say I am a Muslim, while the other
one will say, I am a Christian. How can we
make progress? We cannot make progress
by calling each other despicable names.
Our leaders in the past did not do that.

How can relationships among northern people be improved?

Honestly, enough is enough. Emirs should
be visiting each other. We can solve this
problem, if we sit down and talk to each
other. Emirs have stopped visiting each
other. If you are angry with someone, and
then he visits you, I am sure you will
forgive him. Our governors too have a
problem. We organised a meeting in
Kaduna, the governors came and
everything was so good, then the following
day, only Governor Yakowa turned up,
maybe he himself came because he was the
host. They don’t co-operate. We have to sit
and love one another, cry and laugh
together. Otherwise, the upcoming
generation will not inherit the right things
from us.

From the time he was the head of state up till today, many people have different interpretations of who Abacha was.Some see him as a hero, while others see him as a dictator who trampled on
peoples’ right especially those opposed to him. Can you briefly describe him?

Many people misunderstood who Abacha
was. He was very honest and well
mannered. Whenever we sat together,
everyone would give their opinion, but
whenever he decided, that was all. He knew
how to run the economy of a nation
despite the fact that he did not train as an
economist. When he was the Head of State,
he refused to take any loan from the World
Bank, so no one dared undermine his
authority. But today, you can say all sorts
of things against the president and sleep
peacefully in your house. So Abacha was a
man who believed in law and order. He
was also a man who believed in giving
everyone their due. He used to listen to any
complaint brought to him that concerned
matters of state, and he always made sure
he solved the problem. I knew him very
well.

SOURCE: PremiumTime/Rariya(Hausa)